Rogier van der Weyden's
Descent from the Cross (1435) dates over one hundred years after Giotto's frescoes in the Arena Chapel, and it was created in the Netherlands rather than Italy. However, it shares with Giotto's narrative scenes a new interest in expressing dramatic emotional intensity. How would you compare Van der Weyden's approach to expressing emotion as similar and different to Giotto's approach in his
Lamentation from the Arena Chapel (which we discussed in Tuesday's lecture, and which was the subject of the previous blog post)?
In these two works of art, Giotto and van der Weyden both strive to capture the drama and emotion of the event by portraying grief-stricken facial expressions and hunched, saddened posture. In both scenes, figures crowd around the body of Christ, the women weeping and the men stoic. One of the most noticeable differences between Giotto's and van der Weyden's mourners is that van der Weyden does not give them, or even Christ, halos as Giotto does. This artistic choice allows the viewer to connect with the mourners because they are depicted as normal people rather than holy. The viewer feels the grief of the mourners more deeply and thus carries that grief into their prayers and other religious activities.
ReplyDeleteNice point about the absence of halos here!
DeleteGiotto and van der Weyden both portray the emotions of the people in the scene through dramatic poses and facial expressions, even using a fairly similar composition. Van der Weyden, however, uses a much more realistic style to portray the characters, and clearly cares more about scale than Giotto did. Their approach to the background of the scene is also fairly similar, as both artists used simple backgrounds to draw attention to the real focus of the scene.
ReplyDeleteAnother good observation about the simplicity of the background in both Giotto and Van der Weyden
DeleteBoth works of art fully capture the grief due to the mourning of the recently crucified Jesus Christ. In van der Weyden's piece, there is noticeable difference in the skin color of the women, which is significantly lighter than the men (with one woman almost white). This illustrates how pain-stricken the woman are feeling. This is similar to Giotto's piece, as all the persons in the crowd are painted in a lighter shade than usual. The paleness of the people mourning Christ epitomizes the heartbreak and agony of the crowd. In both pieces, the people in the crowd are for the most part hunched over. This bent posture contorts the body in a way that makes it painful for the audience to look at. Both paintings have these positions pointed toward the body of Christ, probably as a way to highlight his figure.
ReplyDeleteExcellent point about the use of hunched poses to convey grief, and the way both artists use posture to express emotional responses that imply sound and movement within the static and silent medium of painting
DeleteVan der Weyden and Giotto both depict the mourners’ grief through their anguished facial expressions and body positions. The downcast eyes and slumped postures of Christ’s followers convey emotion in both Van der Weyden and Giotto’s works. However, Van der Weyden creates a more raw and gritty scene, as Christ’s crown of thorns and bleeding wounds from the cross are clearly visible, while Giotto’s Christ has no profusely bleeding wounds. Christ’s body is also limp and awkward while he is being removed from the cross and the heavenly realm is not depicted. In contrast, Christ in Giotto’s painting appears to be in a more peaceful state as he rests in the arms of four women. Both artists convey the dramatic emotion and sadness of Christ’s followers, but Van der Weyden expresses emotion in a more down to earth scene.
ReplyDeleteabsolutely, the emphasis on Christ's physical suffering is definitely more pronounced and brought to the fore in Van der Weyden' altarpiece
DeleteBoth Giotto and van der Weyden show the emotions of the people in the scene through dramatic facial expressions and poses. The people, in both works of art, are surrounding Christ. A noticeable difference is the colors in each piece. Van der Weyden depicts the grief through the dark and rich colors. Giotto's piece has light and bright colors. The scene is also shown outside. The light colors and nature represent how Christ is in a peaceful state as he rests.
ReplyDeletethe difference in color palette is indeed interesting, and partly derives from the different mediums that the two artists are using. The richness of Van der Weyden's color palette is more easily achieved in oil paint (and stands the test of time more effectively) than in Giotto's medium of fresco
DeleteThough they depict the same subject, Weyden's Descent from the Cross has some key aspects that make it very different from Giotto's Lamentation. In the Arena Chapel piece, the figures are all static. Despite the pained expressions on their faces, they all appear fairly similar as they stare down at Christ. Little variety is show in terms of emotion and there is no sense of real movement going on. Even the grieving angels flying in the sky appear frozen in time. However, in this piece we see far more varied emotion, color and detail. Christ's weight is palpable as he slumps down into the arms of those around him. Also, Mary is seen colorless and completely devoid of energy. She appears far more shocked than Giotto's Mary who sits with the same expression as everyone around her. The artist also humanizes the figures by omitting halos and other heavenly minutiae, enabling the viewer to sympathize more deeply with the subjects. Both are truly pivotal works, but the emotion and execution of this piece are what make it it stand apart from Giotto's.
ReplyDeleteexcellent analysis, especially regarding the great sense of implied movement in Van der Weyden's painting -- there is a solidity to the forms of Giotto's figures that makes it harder to imagine them in motion, even if he endeavors to imply different actions of grieving in both the human crowd and angelic host.
DeleteBoth pieces show the grief of the subjects through facial expressions and body position. The intense grief is shown by the distraught facial expressions while the drama of the scene is conveyed by the body position where all the figures are either bent over or seem to be drooping under an invisible weight. Giotto's lamentation is painted less realistically and in a muted color palette which gives the air of sadness a sense of defeat and exhaustion. Weyden's Descent From the Cross is painted very realistically in order to evoke an intense sadness through the facial expressions. The color palette is bright, which characterizes the grief as desperate and distraught.
ReplyDeleteboth artists are striving for a "realistic" effect but their manner of achieving that goal definitely differs. It is a good example of how a word like "realistic" is limited as a term for describing works of art, as it can manifest in so many different ways, and to such varying degrees
DeleteSimilarly to Giotto's fresco in the Arena chapel, the individuals are lamenting in individual ways but in a more dramatic way. The woman on the right's posture is extremely contorted and the Mary is extremely pale. She is in so much emotional pain that she has fainted. Her pose is much like that of Christ's; their arms are both stretched out by others but hanging limp and their bodies are creating diagonals in the same direction of the painting. Furthermore, unlike Giotto's we see how much Christ has suffered. Blood is gushing from his wounds and unlike Giotto's piece where he is gracefully limp, in Weyden's piece his body is twisted and we see his bones. The vibrance of the piece also helps juxtapose with the pale skin of Christ. Life and death is portrayed in the skull in the foreground of Weyden's piece whereas the bare trees in Giotto's piece reminded the viewer of the cycle of life. The composition in Weyden's painting forms part of the cross in the way that the people are positioned and the golden frame in the background. In Giotto's piece, because they are outdoors, the mourning scene seems more natural. Clearly, they were commissioned for different reasons. Weyden's approach to the lamentation is much more grandeur and theatrical.
ReplyDeleteMany nice observations here, especially about the parallel between the bodies of Mary and Chrisf
DeleteBoth Giotto and Van der Weyden addresses Christ's suffering through the depiction of dramatic facial expressions. In both paintings, Virgin Mary is depicted in blue drapery, and is also the closest figure to Jesus Christ. However, the ways the artists use the space are very different. In Giotto's painting, Christ is arranged in the lower left corner, while Van der Weyden depicts Christ in the very center of his painting. In Van der Weyden's painting, we also see a similarity between the pose of Christ and the shape of the cross behind his figure. Mary's pose also resembles that of Christ. Also, in Van der Weyden's painting, figures are more frontal. We can also wee that Van der Weyden does not pay as much attention on the background as Giotto does.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, the greater frontality of the figures in Van der Weyden's painting gives it a more staged feel than Giotto's scene, which invites the viewer to enter
DeleteBoth pieces show drama and grief through facial expressions and body position. The faces are very expressive and realistic. Van der Weyden's piece seems more naturalistic, however. Not all of the people are looking at Christ. The most devastated seem to be crying into their hands or holding onto others. Both pieces use background details to lead the eye to the main focus of the artwork: Christ. I find it interesting how realistic this painting is. The figures really look like they are right there, and not just a mixture of pigment on a surface. The attention to detail is incredible.
ReplyDeleteYes, the sense of real presence in Can der Weyden's painting is remarkable
DeleteIn Van Der Weyden's painting, the hue is very sharp, and the figures stand out while in Giotto's painting, the colors are very pastel which make the figures less sharp. The position of Jesus Christ in both pictures are very different; Jesus Christ lies in the center of Van Der Weyden's painting while in Giotto's painting, the figure is in the lower left corner. What is interesting is that not all the faces are turned toward Jesus, but because of it being in the center and the pale skin, the audience's eyes are directed towards him. Everyone's eyes are closed in this picture as though they are expressing the sincere grief. Virgin Mary on the side has fainted, but it looks as though she has died because her face holds no color in it. Everyone's head is bowed down though as though they cannot look up at the heavens. All the bodies are more anatomically correct, but Jesus's body is very lengthy and loose as people drag the body down from the cross. Jesus's body is not seen as important, because the soul has left but before in Giotto's painting, Virgin Mary is stroking it.
ReplyDeleteIt's true that the two works represent slightly different moments in time within Christ's narrative, even though the Lamentation follows immediately after the Descent from the Cross
DeleteI think one of the similarities between this painting and the last one is that they both combine facial expressions and postures to express emotions. The figures in the paintings show different facial expressions corresponding with their postures, which make the works very natural and vivid. And one of the differences is that van der Weyden is not using people's eyesight to direct people's attention to Christ. They look into different directions, suggesting that they are indulging in their own sadness.
ReplyDeletegood point about how the different angles of the faces and glances in Van der Weyden emphasizes internal and individual response rather than group mourning
DeleteOne of the similarities between these two paintings is that both Giotto and Weyden tried to capture the emotions of the figures through their facial expressions and body gestures. The mourners in this painting have their heads down and their body loosen and dragged. In both paintings, the figures' expressions and gestures are a bit exaggerated to show the drama of the events. One difference that I noticed is the way the artists choose to capture the viewers' attention. In Giotto's Lamentation of Christ, the mourners are facing towards Christ, leading the viewers' eyes towards the main focus. The viewers can immediately understand the situation, and unconsciously become mourners mourning for the death of Christ. However, in Rogier van der Weyden's Descent from the Cross, the mourners are all facing different directions. This helps to make the scene seems more realistic and natural. The figures' heads are not turning in the same angle. Instead, each figure is doing their own thing, expressing their grief in their own way. In this case, Van der Weyden is not trying to lead the viewers to the main subject, but instead present the whole scene to the viewer, allowing them to see the drama of the event.
ReplyDeleteyes, this dovetails nicely with the previous comment!
DeleteBoth Giotto and van der Weyden capture an intense emotional scene, primarily conveying the general atmosphere through the expressions of the figures present at Jesus' death. However, the two do it through remarkably dissimilar methods. Giotto opts for a more generic look of grief among the humans of The Lamentation. While there is some variation, the common portrayal is through a half-open mouth, chin drawn back slightly, conveying the sense that the characters with such expressions are on the verge of tears. The angels, however, are what truly communicate the overall sense of anguish. Throwing their heads back, contorting their faces in cries of pain, grasping the sides of their heads, splaying their arms out to the side, or clasping their hands together, these angels display a wide range of physical cues that articulate their pain and the loss the world has suffered. Van der Weyden uses a similar technique, the individuality of a loss, but instead applies it to the humans in his Descent from the Cross. Christ's death clearly affects each person in the painting in a different way. Each reveals an entirely unique sense of suffering, primarily through their facial expressions. The man just to Jesus' left looks down in sorrow, reflecting. One woman cries, Mary faints, another man, red-faced and staring blankly into space, is on the verge of tears as he helps her up. The variety of emotional responses in the piece is incredible, and testifies to the individuality of the grief experienced by its figures.
ReplyDeletevery nicely put -- there is definitely more emphasis on the human realm in Van der Weyden's painting than in Giotto's fresco
DeleteThe way in which the bodies are positioned in this piece seem to form a cross themselves, especially due to the fact that Christ is located so central while his body weight is being held up by others. It is interesting to see that in Giotto's work, all the figures are staring attentively at Christ and doting on him, while in Weyden's painting all of the surrounding people's eyes are closed (and therefore not looking at Christ) yet we still get a sense that the focus is still very much so on Christ. This painting also has richer colors which in some ways makes the painting feel more alive/awake even though everyone seems to be sleeping. I also love how the tilting of everyone's heads really creates a lot of movement within the painting and in a sense, tells your eyes in which direction you should navigate the space as the viewer.
ReplyDelete-hailey nathel
good observation about the tilting heads and the overall cross-like structure of the scene
DeleteIn both Giotto's Lamentation of Christ and Rogier van der Weyden's Descent from the Cross, the artists aim to depict the grief following the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The figures in both works surround Christ with sorrowful expressions, though while Giotto depicts the mourners with their bodies and faces turned toward Christ, van der Weyden illustrates many figures in a frontal view. Giotto also places Christ in the lower lefthand corner, using the direction of bodies to lead the eye to him, while van der Weyden depicts him as the central figure. Both paintings use similar colors, heavy in blues, yellows, and reds, but draw from very different shades. While Giotto employs bright hues and a light background, bringing more life into the image, van der Weyden adopts darker and more saturated colors along with a black background, highlighting the despair of the scene. In addition, Giotto includes divine aspects in his work, including the angels and halos, giving the sense that Christ's death has broken even the heavens. Van der Wyden portrays the figures without any divine features, allowing the audience to imagine the devastating effect the event had on common people.
ReplyDeletevery nice analysis, which compliments several of the previous responses here
DeleteVan der Weyden approaches expressing emotions differently from Giotto through incredible detail. The detail emphasizes the different creases in the face and thus the viewer can register the emotion easier and quicker. Also, Van der Weyden incorporates light and chiaroscuro to emphasize the details in the faces. With Giotto, there are less contours in the face and therefore each face seems to emit the same emotion. He does not include the different lights on the faces as well. This lack of detail creates less dynamics in the faces and thus the emotion emitted is less dramatic.
ReplyDeleteVan der Weyden and Giotto both use downcast eyes to convey the emotion of misery. Both paintings have hunched over backs, craned necks, and downward facing heads. They both seem to embody the same concept of what misery looks like in a human body.
nice point about the stronger, more dramatic lighting in Van der Weyden's painting -- even though the figures are in a strange boxed setting with little depth, we still get a strong sense of their dimensionality, almost as if they were sculpted figures come to life
DeleteIf we are trying to compare Giotto's Lamentation to Rogier Van der Weyden's Descent from the Cross, we can notice while both express intense emotion and suffering, they do so in different ways. FIrst, unlike Giotto's piece this piece has the focus purely on the body of the dead Christ, instead of on Mary and his followers reacting to his death. There is no relationship between the Christ character and the other bodies, making the viewer focus on a more intimate relationship between herself and Christ. Giotto's , on the other hand, focuses on the way the followers are suffering as they watch Christ, making the viewer not a participant in the scene and suffering, but a distant onlooker. There is also a larger focus on Mary in both pieces, but in Giotto's it is through her calm tears of acceptance at what was predicted becoming reality, where here Mary has fainted and also looks like a corpse, playing on the idea that with her son's death, so too has a piece of her died. Overall., Giotto's characters have less dynamic poses and brighter colors, making the mood less dramatic and calling to mind suffering that was predicted and accepted. In this piece, however, the heightened darks and intense lights bring a darker mood that is more confrontational to the viewer.
ReplyDeleteanalysis very good analysis, especially emphasizing the similarity between the post of Christ and that of Mary suffering in mirror image of her son
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